Raised face flange to FRP flat face flange. 1 - Eng-Tips

How do you guys handle a case where a raised face flange (say a lined valve or lined fitting) has to be connected to an FRP flange, which is flat face. The gap between the flanges due to the raised face would set up a bending moment that would break the FRP flange, when applying the torque necessary to seal the lined valve or fitting. Given that it is an issue of the FRP flange, do the FRP manufacturers make any type of support rings or such that allow the installer to use sufficient torque values to seal the lined valve or fitting? sponge..

The most common fix I have seen is to grind off the raised face...alternately, you can simply replace the flange with a FF version.

Yes, there would be an excessive bending monment, and yes you can break a GRP flange....the "clasic" field installation mistake, however, is connecting a RF (steel) flange to a FF (cast iron) flange on a pump.

The "Piping Handbook" by Nayyar cautions against making this mistake...

MJC

Grinding off the raised face is not an option when it is a lined component like plastic lined pipe or valves. These are and must be raised face by definition, since the liner comes out over the flange face and forms a gasket sealing surface. This insures that all wetted parts of the lined component are lined.

Hi,

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I am a user of P3D since and it is working fine for all metallic pipes in but i am now working with FRP pipes and EPDM lined Flanged and wafer Valves besides the normal fanged one , the problem is i cannot think of a way that configure the connection setting to connect the FF Frp flange with RF lined fanged + Wafer Valves and also besides making the right bolts for both cases "Specially the Wafer", So If there is any one can help me knowing that i am not that much of XML coder "If also any one can how can i understand these codes i am only using the GUI of Project Setup to configure".

in a simple form " how could i connect FRP Flat Face Flanges with Flanged or Wafer Lined Valves (Without Gasket) + RF metallic or Non Metallic Flanges ?".

thanks in Advance.

@mmcmorriswrote:

I'm not familiar with but in newer versions you would create a connection rule in the project properties.  Usually we use the LFL type and set LFL to LFL to only use bolts.  That way it doesn't interfere with your normal FL connections.

Thanks for your reply but i canot use LFL with LFL because in that case i need to but spacer because they are both lined and that is not the case here.

the lined object can be connected directly with normal not lined RF or FF flange that is one thing,

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i also have lined wafer and lined luged connection and as per your shown configuration the auto flange joint will not work because the determined end-type in the activated required property match menu which i have to deactivate it to enable the auto flange after creating a new simple joint with both ends LFL puting bolt set as a fasteners only which forced me to change the end type of the connected flange to lined valve to be LFL as well.

SO what else shall i do to apply the same for wafer and lug connection, and if there is any other better solution than what i did. "I am now using version"

You could also remove LFL from your current flange auto connection, create a FL to LFL connection with only bolts and remove the facing check, then create an LFL to LFL connection rule with just bolts.  That should work if I'm following what you're doing.

You can fake it by removing the RF to FF check for LFL and the making both LFL.  Then change your call our in the spec to where it says RF.  These entities don't have to reflect real life they're just objects on a PC.  The only thing that really matters (to us at least) is the ISO. 

@mmcmorriswrote:

You could also remove LFL from your current flange auto connection, create a FL to LFL connection with only bolts and remove the facing check, then create an LFL to LFL connection rule with just bolts.  That should work if I'm following what you're doing.

You can fake it by removing the RF to FF check for LFL and the making both LFL.  Then change your call our in the spec to where it says RF.  These entities don't have to reflect real life they're just objects on a PC.  The only thing that really matters (to us at least) is the ISO. 

faking the facing will harm my other SS piping and also Plastic piping because facing mater when counting required gasket needed BOM so it cannot be taken as a solution because there is only one configuration file controlling all the piping system for the project which leave me with duplicating the simple connections and also compound ones but also will create same problem connecting simple not lined flange to lined valve flange or equipment so is there more general solution i can use, i have also a lot of questions regarding the ortho generation and some other stuff and i ask you if can send you on your account to see what are the solution for those? 

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